Just a short blog to say that in addition to Ayatullah Saanei, Ayatullah Fadlallah has the same opinion and I'd just like to quote his main (3 volume) risala - [note that this is a book of laws and most 3 volume risalas don't have reasoning but his has a basic reasoning]. I noticed this as I was checking something that a friend asked for me:
"As for women, the widely held opinion is that she reaches the age of taklif [having to perform all the wajibat...etc.] dependent on her age (specifically reaching the age of 9). However, what is apparent from the evidence, is that she reaches [this age of taklif] when she gets her period. In one of the narrations that mention 9, it even says: "and that is because she gets her period at 9". Similarly, it says in narrations about the idda period, when it discusses about those for whom there is no idda period: "...'what is the limit of it [having to wait for the idda [period]'? When she has not reached 9". From here, we can infer that 9 is the age that is distinctly mentioned because it is the age at which a girl gets her period, other than in exceptional situations; the issue of bulugh is thus about the period, regardless of whether the age is mentioned or not. For this reason, it is clearer [than any alternative] that a girl becomes responsible for her actions, if she reaches 13 lunar years, or sees the blood of period before then. However, it is still better to encourage a girl to perform the important rituals in shar'i law, especially hijab and prayers after reaching 9 lunar years (=8 years and 9 months in Christian calendar)"
(Source: http://arabic.bayynat.org.lb/kotob/fekhalshari3a-1.pdf, page 5)
Tuesday 29 December 2009
Saturday 26 December 2009
Age of Bulugh for women (6 - final)
Now we have seen the arguments on both sides, it is up to you to decide!
To me, the age of 9 would normally seem very arbitrary, especially as there is no minimum age for boys. However, with the first set of narrations, there is a wonder as to why the age of 9 is mentioned at all, even though it is never mentioned on its own. Potential reasons seem to be:
• Cultural phenomenon where at that time, 9 was the age when most girls got their period…etc. [this is backed up by the third narration which says: “that is because she gets her period at 9”
• 9 is the minimum age rather than the maximum age at which one could be baligh i.e. if you are 9 AND get your period…so if you get your period before then, that does not count
• The arguments proposed by Ayatullah Saanei
All at least give some doubt as to its authenticity. We then see some of the Qur`anic proofs put forward by Ayatullah Saanei and they seem to suggest that age is not a reason at all. At the minimum, if it is a reason, it is doubtful and the rule of istis-hab works. For me, this shows that the readiness to get married i.e. physical maturity is the factor, which determines bulugh.
(for maximum age, as there is one for guys, it seems that there should be one for girls just to ensure all are baligh and those with exceptional physical differences are not treated too differently).
A question that was put to me very well was: we are having a discussion about bulugh but what is bulugh.
There is an important discussion to be had here. When one is able to distinguish between right and wrong, God is able to use that as a basis for judging actions. This could occur from as early as 3 for example. This ability is a hidden factor, and one left for God to judge. Therefore, it CANNOT be the basis for the application of Islamic law by judges here (other laws could be used).
Bulugh is a testable factor, which is the basis when ALL Islamic laws are then applicable on both sides:
• From your side: you are then responsible for your actions being in line with Islamic law
• From the side of society e.g. if there is an Islamic state with hudud punishments, they can only be applicable at this age
Therefore, this age of bulugh is more important from this angle, rather than that of the next life, as God will judge and He is the best of judges.
To me, the age of 9 would normally seem very arbitrary, especially as there is no minimum age for boys. However, with the first set of narrations, there is a wonder as to why the age of 9 is mentioned at all, even though it is never mentioned on its own. Potential reasons seem to be:
• Cultural phenomenon where at that time, 9 was the age when most girls got their period…etc. [this is backed up by the third narration which says: “that is because she gets her period at 9”
• 9 is the minimum age rather than the maximum age at which one could be baligh i.e. if you are 9 AND get your period…so if you get your period before then, that does not count
• The arguments proposed by Ayatullah Saanei
All at least give some doubt as to its authenticity. We then see some of the Qur`anic proofs put forward by Ayatullah Saanei and they seem to suggest that age is not a reason at all. At the minimum, if it is a reason, it is doubtful and the rule of istis-hab works. For me, this shows that the readiness to get married i.e. physical maturity is the factor, which determines bulugh.
(for maximum age, as there is one for guys, it seems that there should be one for girls just to ensure all are baligh and those with exceptional physical differences are not treated too differently).
A question that was put to me very well was: we are having a discussion about bulugh but what is bulugh.
There is an important discussion to be had here. When one is able to distinguish between right and wrong, God is able to use that as a basis for judging actions. This could occur from as early as 3 for example. This ability is a hidden factor, and one left for God to judge. Therefore, it CANNOT be the basis for the application of Islamic law by judges here (other laws could be used).
Bulugh is a testable factor, which is the basis when ALL Islamic laws are then applicable on both sides:
• From your side: you are then responsible for your actions being in line with Islamic law
• From the side of society e.g. if there is an Islamic state with hudud punishments, they can only be applicable at this age
Therefore, this age of bulugh is more important from this angle, rather than that of the next life, as God will judge and He is the best of judges.
Wednesday 23 December 2009
Age of Bulugh for women (5)
Method 2 – Verse 6 from Surah Nisaa
“And test the orphans until they reach marriage; then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property,”
The important thing to note here, is that this “make over to them their property” is the same phrase as is used in the narrations in blog 1 (“her property is given to her”) as the measure of bulugh, which has two conditions:
This means that there are two conditions for giving property to the young orphans:
1. Reaching the age where you are ready to be married(بلغوا النكاح)
2. Maturity of intellect (رشد)
As we know that the age of bulugh is not marriage itself, it must be reaching the age of bulugh is being ready for marriage.
Method 3: Verse 59 of Surah Nur
“And when the children among you have had a wet dream/attained puberty [حلم], let them seek permission as those before them sought permission”
Similar to the narration before, this means that you do not reach bulugh until you have a wet dream.
Method 4: Verse 34 from Surah Israa
“And draw not near to the property of the orphan except in a goodly way till he attains his maturity” (بلغ أشدّه)
A narration from Hashim bin Salim from Abu Abd Allah (AS), who said: “being an orphan is stopped when you reach puberty [same word used as in surah nur above], and this is reaching maturity [أشده – as used in surah israa]. And if he reaches puberty and is not mature or is stupid, or weak, then let his guardian hold on to his property.”
The point of this, is this is another indication that age is not a decisive factor.
Method 5: Narration of “not being answerable to God” رفع القلم
The Prophet (SAW) said: “There is no answering to God for three types of people: from a young person until he has a wet dream, and from a mad person until he becomes sane, and a from someone sleeping until he is conscious”
This is a narration, that there is consensus about – that it came from the Prophet (SAW).
Method 6: No evidence
There is no actual clear evidence for reaching bulugh before 13, and this is enough by itself.
Method 7: Istishab of not being baligh
Istis-hab is a jurisprudential tool that is used based on rationality. It says that we value certainty over doubt and if we have certainty and then doubt about something changing, we must refer to the certainty.
We have certainty that when born, a girl is not baligh. There are traditions which mention 9 (but NONE that mention 9 independently of any other factor). We can thus not be sure that you definitely become baligh at 9. We can thus refer to the certain state of not being baligh.
There are traditions for 9, 10 and 13 so when you reach 13, you can know for sure that if there is a maximum age limit (which makes sense to make sure that those who are late developers do not get a completely different age of bulugh), you can be sure that when you reach 13, you have reached the age of bulugh.
Overall, the deduction of most scholars in deciding that the age of bulugh is 9 for women has a lot of problems with it. This is because there are other factors which make the age of 9 not required. And Ijma’ does not work.
The Qur`an does not specify an age and we have potentially conflicting narrations. If the evidence above does not satisfy one to ignore the age of 9, then both sets of narrations are disregarded, and there is no reason to have the age of 9.
“And test the orphans until they reach marriage; then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property,”
The important thing to note here, is that this “make over to them their property” is the same phrase as is used in the narrations in blog 1 (“her property is given to her”) as the measure of bulugh, which has two conditions:
This means that there are two conditions for giving property to the young orphans:
1. Reaching the age where you are ready to be married(بلغوا النكاح)
2. Maturity of intellect (رشد)
As we know that the age of bulugh is not marriage itself, it must be reaching the age of bulugh is being ready for marriage.
Method 3: Verse 59 of Surah Nur
“And when the children among you have had a wet dream/attained puberty [حلم], let them seek permission as those before them sought permission”
Similar to the narration before, this means that you do not reach bulugh until you have a wet dream.
Method 4: Verse 34 from Surah Israa
“And draw not near to the property of the orphan except in a goodly way till he attains his maturity” (بلغ أشدّه)
A narration from Hashim bin Salim from Abu Abd Allah (AS), who said: “being an orphan is stopped when you reach puberty [same word used as in surah nur above], and this is reaching maturity [أشده – as used in surah israa]. And if he reaches puberty and is not mature or is stupid, or weak, then let his guardian hold on to his property.”
The point of this, is this is another indication that age is not a decisive factor.
Method 5: Narration of “not being answerable to God” رفع القلم
The Prophet (SAW) said: “There is no answering to God for three types of people: from a young person until he has a wet dream, and from a mad person until he becomes sane, and a from someone sleeping until he is conscious”
This is a narration, that there is consensus about – that it came from the Prophet (SAW).
Method 6: No evidence
There is no actual clear evidence for reaching bulugh before 13, and this is enough by itself.
Method 7: Istishab of not being baligh
Istis-hab is a jurisprudential tool that is used based on rationality. It says that we value certainty over doubt and if we have certainty and then doubt about something changing, we must refer to the certainty.
We have certainty that when born, a girl is not baligh. There are traditions which mention 9 (but NONE that mention 9 independently of any other factor). We can thus not be sure that you definitely become baligh at 9. We can thus refer to the certain state of not being baligh.
There are traditions for 9, 10 and 13 so when you reach 13, you can know for sure that if there is a maximum age limit (which makes sense to make sure that those who are late developers do not get a completely different age of bulugh), you can be sure that when you reach 13, you have reached the age of bulugh.
Overall, the deduction of most scholars in deciding that the age of bulugh is 9 for women has a lot of problems with it. This is because there are other factors which make the age of 9 not required. And Ijma’ does not work.
The Qur`an does not specify an age and we have potentially conflicting narrations. If the evidence above does not satisfy one to ignore the age of 9, then both sets of narrations are disregarded, and there is no reason to have the age of 9.
Monday 21 December 2009
Age of Bulugh for women (4)
We have discussed the main arguments for the age of 9 being the maximum age at which a girl can become baligh. Now we can discuss Ayatullah Saanei's point of view and his proactive arguments. He believes that the maximum age is 13, and that there is no actual proof for 9.
How can it be 9, which adds a huge weight on girls who do not have physical growth and are not even ready to be married. Is this not against the law of tolerance/liberality (سماحة) and ease? If the other signs are there, that is a different case.
Saanei uses a range of methods, the first of which is detailed in this blog:
Method 1 – Hadith of Ammar Saabati
“I asked him [Abu Abd Allah] about when a young man has to pray and he replied: “When he reaches 13. If he has a wet dream before then, then he has to pray, and the pen starts writing [good and bad deeds] and for a young girl, it is like that as well, if she reaches 13 or has her period before then, then she has to pray and the pen starts writing [good and bad deeds]”
This narration is clear, and the chain of narrations is strong (موثق – not صحيح though).
Problems with this:
1. The majority say that it is 15 not 13 for boys. So if this is not correct, the rest of the narration might have to be dropped.
Answer: just because the first part of the narration is in contradiction with many narrations that mention 15 rather than 13 for boys, does not mean the remainder of the narration is not reliable.
2. No jurist has said that the age of bulugh for girls is 13
Answer: Shaykh Tusi used this narration as something that can be the basis of legal rulings. In addition, the widespread opinion that the age is 9, only came after Shaykh Tusi, and this widespread opinion cannot be relied upon (by itself) because it only is based on Shaykh Tusi’s opinion, and it is not the widespread opinion of the early scholars - only those after Shaykh Tusi.
3. Ammar Saabuti is from the Fat-hi sect.
Answer: Shaykh Tusi mentioned this but said that in spite of this, he is trustworthy, and there is no problem with him. Najashi also considered him trustworthy in our early books of Rijal. Allama Hilli says that he is trustworthy….
4. The narration contradicts those which talk about the age of 9, and because of the number of the narrations that discuss 9, those should be given precedence due to the higher probability that they are true, in addition to the fact that this is supported by the majority held view.
Answer: As has been discussed previously, these narrations are not about reaching the age of bulugh at 9, and therefore there is actually no contradiction.
If we accept that there is some link to reaching bulugh at 9, we realise that this narration in clear in what it says, whereas those are not clear, and therefore, there is no actual contradiction, as what is clear always takes precedence.
How can it be 9, which adds a huge weight on girls who do not have physical growth and are not even ready to be married. Is this not against the law of tolerance/liberality (سماحة) and ease? If the other signs are there, that is a different case.
Saanei uses a range of methods, the first of which is detailed in this blog:
Method 1 – Hadith of Ammar Saabati
“I asked him [Abu Abd Allah] about when a young man has to pray and he replied: “When he reaches 13. If he has a wet dream before then, then he has to pray, and the pen starts writing [good and bad deeds] and for a young girl, it is like that as well, if she reaches 13 or has her period before then, then she has to pray and the pen starts writing [good and bad deeds]”
This narration is clear, and the chain of narrations is strong (موثق – not صحيح though).
Problems with this:
1. The majority say that it is 15 not 13 for boys. So if this is not correct, the rest of the narration might have to be dropped.
Answer: just because the first part of the narration is in contradiction with many narrations that mention 15 rather than 13 for boys, does not mean the remainder of the narration is not reliable.
2. No jurist has said that the age of bulugh for girls is 13
Answer: Shaykh Tusi used this narration as something that can be the basis of legal rulings. In addition, the widespread opinion that the age is 9, only came after Shaykh Tusi, and this widespread opinion cannot be relied upon (by itself) because it only is based on Shaykh Tusi’s opinion, and it is not the widespread opinion of the early scholars - only those after Shaykh Tusi.
3. Ammar Saabuti is from the Fat-hi sect.
Answer: Shaykh Tusi mentioned this but said that in spite of this, he is trustworthy, and there is no problem with him. Najashi also considered him trustworthy in our early books of Rijal. Allama Hilli says that he is trustworthy….
4. The narration contradicts those which talk about the age of 9, and because of the number of the narrations that discuss 9, those should be given precedence due to the higher probability that they are true, in addition to the fact that this is supported by the majority held view.
Answer: As has been discussed previously, these narrations are not about reaching the age of bulugh at 9, and therefore there is actually no contradiction.
If we accept that there is some link to reaching bulugh at 9, we realise that this narration in clear in what it says, whereas those are not clear, and therefore, there is no actual contradiction, as what is clear always takes precedence.
Wednesday 16 December 2009
Age of Bulugh for women (3)
So we've discussed the traditions supporting the age of 9 being the maximum age for girls to reach bulugh, and Saanei has demonstrated flaws in the traditions. Before presenting his case as to why it should be actually based on the signs of puberty (i.e. period), with a maximum at 13, he discusses the second main method that some use to justify the age of 9:
Consensus (Ijma')
In general, consensus (with conditions) is used as a source of Islamic law. The basic premise is that if everyone agrees, how can they be wrong (especially if that everyone includes the 12th Imam (AS)). I will discuss the details of consensus as a method of proving something by referring to Ayrwani's commentary on Syed Muhammad Baqir Sadr's Halaqat al-Thalitha in a later blog.
In this specific situation, the aim is to find out whether there is ijma' and if it could be used.
1. Can it be used?
Ijma’ based on narrations is not a source in itself i.e. the individuals who form the consensus used the narrations to justify their position, and thus the narrations are the proof, not the consensus.
2. Is there actually consensus?
There isn’t even consensus as there are examples in books of the early scholars that don’t even mention the age when discussing bulugh, but they put getting one’s period as the measure of bulugh.
There is no sign of age before Shaykh Tusi and those books actually had other points:
Shaykh Saduq: When a woman has her period
Sayyid Murtada: When a woman has her period
There is no hadith about when a woman has to start fasting other than when her period has started.
Regardless, the point is that without these two major scholars, there is clearly no consensus. In addition, there are other scholars in the past who have considered 10 (and 13) to be the age of bulugh.
Overall, consensus cannot be used.
Consensus (Ijma')
In general, consensus (with conditions) is used as a source of Islamic law. The basic premise is that if everyone agrees, how can they be wrong (especially if that everyone includes the 12th Imam (AS)). I will discuss the details of consensus as a method of proving something by referring to Ayrwani's commentary on Syed Muhammad Baqir Sadr's Halaqat al-Thalitha in a later blog.
In this specific situation, the aim is to find out whether there is ijma' and if it could be used.
1. Can it be used?
Ijma’ based on narrations is not a source in itself i.e. the individuals who form the consensus used the narrations to justify their position, and thus the narrations are the proof, not the consensus.
2. Is there actually consensus?
There isn’t even consensus as there are examples in books of the early scholars that don’t even mention the age when discussing bulugh, but they put getting one’s period as the measure of bulugh.
There is no sign of age before Shaykh Tusi and those books actually had other points:
Shaykh Saduq: When a woman has her period
Sayyid Murtada: When a woman has her period
There is no hadith about when a woman has to start fasting other than when her period has started.
Regardless, the point is that without these two major scholars, there is clearly no consensus. In addition, there are other scholars in the past who have considered 10 (and 13) to be the age of bulugh.
Overall, consensus cannot be used.
Thursday 10 December 2009
Age of Bulugh for women (2)
Summary of previous sets of arguments on Hadith study which talk directly about bulugh and the age of 9: 9 is always supplementary to something else, which has far greater reason for being the cause of bulugh. Why is 9 mentioned at all? Well I will answer that in a later blog but in a basic sense, the 3rd hadith is one of the reasons (other reasons in future blog!)
Also three comments to me from readers:
1. I do not provide sources in these last few blogs - that is laziness and anyone wanting them can just ask (they are all from Wasa`il al-Shia and I have the sources in the book)
2. Blogs are long - sorry but I want to try and cover a topic
3. The argument is not good enough! Well...let's finish the main arguments on both sides, and with a holistic view we can try and deal with this point...if there are individual arguments you do not like, ping me an email or write a comment, and I can try and give you what I think he means...
So far, we have discussed the first part of the hadith study i.e. the narrations that directly talk about the age of 9. Now we come to the second bunch of narrations: those that discuss the fact it is allowed to get married to girls of 9, and consequently, that is the age of bulugh.
Hadith 1: “If a man marries a young girl, he should not enter her until she is 9”
Hadith 2: “A girl should not be entered until she is 9 or 10 years old”
Hadith 3: The prophet (SAW) said: “the limit of a woman being entered into by her husband is a girl of 9”
Hadith 4: “whoever has relations with his wife before 9, is punishable…”
Hadith 5: “Whoever enters a girl before she reaches 9 is punishable…”
Hadith 6: “… ‘if he entered her when she was 9, then there is no problem but if she was not yet 9, or she was under 9 by a bit then and he deflowered her, then he has caused fasaad…”
All of these are based on the consensus view that it is not allowed to have relations before bulugh, and these narrations discuss whether it is allowed after 9, which would then imply that the age of bulugh is 9. Bu there are a few problems:
The first and second narration say that sex before 9 is not allowed, which one may think implies that after 9, it is allowed. However, this tactic of implying what is understood (مفهوم) has certain rules and limitations such as it cannot be absolute (إطلاق) unless the speaker makes it clear that it is, which requires something to indicate this – and there is nothing here [this is how Ayatullah Khumayni discussed the limitations of مفهوم.
To be clearer, you cannot infer directly that after 9 you will definitely be allowed to have sex with a girl because that requires proof, as it is not actually what is said - that requires a generalisation of the مفهوم (making it absolute - إطلاق) which cannot be done without proof/evidence.
Even if we were to assume that the مفهوم is absolute, there are other narrations (such as those of type 1), which limit this to only certain situations such as getting married…etc.
The sixth narration mentioned the reason for not being allowed to consummate the marriage and that was the fact it would cause fasaad on the girl, but the reality is that regardless of this reasoning, the impermissibility would still be there and thus the age by itself is not by itself enough to be a sign of bulugh.
[i.e. if you deflower a girl before 9, you are causing fasaad but that does not mean anything about deflowering her after 9 – and is independent of bulugh/not]
Therefore, this sixth narration must be understood in context of others as it cannot be the one that is the basis of the ruling.
There is a hadith from Abu Ayyub al-Khazzar that explains when it is allowed to enter a woman:
“…The Prophet of Allah (SAW) entered A’isha when she was 10 and he did not enter a young girl until she became a woman”
Therefore, the measure of bulugh is physical growth and becoming a woman, as well as being ready for relations. Therefore, the age of 9 is not by itself the reason for being allowed to have relations but it is whilst also being ready for having kids.
In the next post, we will discuss the prevailing opinion of 9, and the second major evidence used to back this up - that of Ijma' (consensus).
Also three comments to me from readers:
1. I do not provide sources in these last few blogs - that is laziness and anyone wanting them can just ask (they are all from Wasa`il al-Shia and I have the sources in the book)
2. Blogs are long - sorry but I want to try and cover a topic
3. The argument is not good enough! Well...let's finish the main arguments on both sides, and with a holistic view we can try and deal with this point...if there are individual arguments you do not like, ping me an email or write a comment, and I can try and give you what I think he means...
So far, we have discussed the first part of the hadith study i.e. the narrations that directly talk about the age of 9. Now we come to the second bunch of narrations: those that discuss the fact it is allowed to get married to girls of 9, and consequently, that is the age of bulugh.
Hadith 1: “If a man marries a young girl, he should not enter her until she is 9”
Hadith 2: “A girl should not be entered until she is 9 or 10 years old”
Hadith 3: The prophet (SAW) said: “the limit of a woman being entered into by her husband is a girl of 9”
Hadith 4: “whoever has relations with his wife before 9, is punishable…”
Hadith 5: “Whoever enters a girl before she reaches 9 is punishable…”
Hadith 6: “… ‘if he entered her when she was 9, then there is no problem but if she was not yet 9, or she was under 9 by a bit then and he deflowered her, then he has caused fasaad…”
All of these are based on the consensus view that it is not allowed to have relations before bulugh, and these narrations discuss whether it is allowed after 9, which would then imply that the age of bulugh is 9. Bu there are a few problems:
The first and second narration say that sex before 9 is not allowed, which one may think implies that after 9, it is allowed. However, this tactic of implying what is understood (مفهوم) has certain rules and limitations such as it cannot be absolute (إطلاق) unless the speaker makes it clear that it is, which requires something to indicate this – and there is nothing here [this is how Ayatullah Khumayni discussed the limitations of مفهوم.
To be clearer, you cannot infer directly that after 9 you will definitely be allowed to have sex with a girl because that requires proof, as it is not actually what is said - that requires a generalisation of the مفهوم (making it absolute - إطلاق) which cannot be done without proof/evidence.
Even if we were to assume that the مفهوم is absolute, there are other narrations (such as those of type 1), which limit this to only certain situations such as getting married…etc.
The sixth narration mentioned the reason for not being allowed to consummate the marriage and that was the fact it would cause fasaad on the girl, but the reality is that regardless of this reasoning, the impermissibility would still be there and thus the age by itself is not by itself enough to be a sign of bulugh.
[i.e. if you deflower a girl before 9, you are causing fasaad but that does not mean anything about deflowering her after 9 – and is independent of bulugh/not]
Therefore, this sixth narration must be understood in context of others as it cannot be the one that is the basis of the ruling.
There is a hadith from Abu Ayyub al-Khazzar that explains when it is allowed to enter a woman:
“…The Prophet of Allah (SAW) entered A’isha when she was 10 and he did not enter a young girl until she became a woman”
Therefore, the measure of bulugh is physical growth and becoming a woman, as well as being ready for relations. Therefore, the age of 9 is not by itself the reason for being allowed to have relations but it is whilst also being ready for having kids.
In the next post, we will discuss the prevailing opinion of 9, and the second major evidence used to back this up - that of Ijma' (consensus).
Sunday 6 December 2009
Age of Bulugh for women (1)
Sorry for the long gap between last post - my wife surprised me by coming to London last week (when I was planning to write these blogs)! Anyway, after some discussions, I think it makes sense to start a new topic (new book by Saanei)...enjoy!
Majority View
Saanei says that the majority of scholars use the following two main methods of deriving the rule that girls become baligh at 9 or whenever the girl has her first period (depending on what is earlier):
1. Hadith study
2. Ijma’
After discussing each of these, he then puts forward his views and methodology for deriving that getting your period is the main arbitrator, with 13 being the age limit.
1. Hadith Study
There are two types of hadith that are used:
1. The narrations that say that a girl comes out of childhood at 9 and the fact that the laws then apply
2. Narrations that say that at that age you are allowed to marry and do similar things
Type 1
Narration 1: “A young girl is not like a young boy. When a young girl marries and it is consummated [lit: husband enters her] and she is 9, she no longer remains an orphan and her property is given to her, and she has the right to buy and sell, and the Islamic law is applicable to her in its entirety…”
Narration 2: Someone asked if 9 is the correct age for the application of Islamic law, if the young girl has not yet got the signs of a woman in terms of having a period, to Abu Ja’far, and he replied: “Yes, if her husband has entered her and she is 9, then she no longer remains an orphan, and her property is given to her and all the Islamic laws are applied to her”
Narration 3: “When a young man reaches 13, good and bad deeds are written about him, and he is punishable. And when a young woman reaches 9, the same thing happens. And that is because she has her period at 9”
Narration 4: “When a young woman reaches 9, her property is given to her, she has the authority of her money and all the Islamic law is applicable to her”
Narration 5: “The limit of bulugh for a woman is 9”
Response 1: the age of 9 is not enough by itself – there must be other factors as well (so 9 is actually irrelevant)
In response to this, the first two narrations have the age of together with the fact that she is married and the husband enters her. These narrations do not show that 9 by itself is the maximum age of bulugh but that the age of 9 together with these extra factors are needed, because if she is married, that means she has reached the physical maturity required to get married.
In fact these narrations seem to suggest that 9 is not the main aim of these two ahadith, but in fact it shows that you need to be strong enough in terms of bodily growth that they naturally have the other signs of bulugh like growth of hair in the pubic region or having a period.
It is true that in the second hadith, it is based on if there is no period, except that this is a very rare situation, as well as the fact that this situation would naturally also include other signs such as the growing of hair in the pubic area.
The point is that the age of 9 is only there, when it also has these other facts, and thus is an indicative factor rather than a factor in itself, and this is clear because nobody says that you reach the age of bulugh when you also marry.
Response 2: the reason is the other factors not being 9
The third hadith makes it clear that the young girl becomes baligh because she gets her period, and if she does not get her period, she does not become baligh.
Response 3: there are other reasons
Assuming that the age of 9 in the final two narrations are meant in an absolute sense, they are still there together with the other factors such as marriage or having their period.
Response 4
Those which do not mention marriage or period (4th and 5th hadith) directly have problems: they both have gaps in the chain of narration.
The fourth also does not mention the age by itself but also the fact that she has to be able to spend her money, and this only happens after the person is mature:
Quran 4: 6: “then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property”
And this maturity is when adult decisions are made rather than childish ones, and this accompanies when a woman gets her period and the other signs of bulugh.
The fifth narration only implies that the limit is 9 but it could mean the minimum limit.
Overall, the 5 narrations, in spite of the fact:
1. Weakness of Abd al Aziz al-Abdi in the chain of the first
2. The fact that Yazid al-Kanaasi is not known in the chain of the second
3. The fourth and fifth have gaps in the chain of narration
In spite of these facts, even if we accept them, the age of 9 is always accompanied with another factor such as being ready for marriage, or getting one’s period, or maturity or growth.
Majority View
Saanei says that the majority of scholars use the following two main methods of deriving the rule that girls become baligh at 9 or whenever the girl has her first period (depending on what is earlier):
1. Hadith study
2. Ijma’
After discussing each of these, he then puts forward his views and methodology for deriving that getting your period is the main arbitrator, with 13 being the age limit.
1. Hadith Study
There are two types of hadith that are used:
1. The narrations that say that a girl comes out of childhood at 9 and the fact that the laws then apply
2. Narrations that say that at that age you are allowed to marry and do similar things
Type 1
Narration 1: “A young girl is not like a young boy. When a young girl marries and it is consummated [lit: husband enters her] and she is 9, she no longer remains an orphan and her property is given to her, and she has the right to buy and sell, and the Islamic law is applicable to her in its entirety…”
Narration 2: Someone asked if 9 is the correct age for the application of Islamic law, if the young girl has not yet got the signs of a woman in terms of having a period, to Abu Ja’far, and he replied: “Yes, if her husband has entered her and she is 9, then she no longer remains an orphan, and her property is given to her and all the Islamic laws are applied to her”
Narration 3: “When a young man reaches 13, good and bad deeds are written about him, and he is punishable. And when a young woman reaches 9, the same thing happens. And that is because she has her period at 9”
Narration 4: “When a young woman reaches 9, her property is given to her, she has the authority of her money and all the Islamic law is applicable to her”
Narration 5: “The limit of bulugh for a woman is 9”
Response 1: the age of 9 is not enough by itself – there must be other factors as well (so 9 is actually irrelevant)
In response to this, the first two narrations have the age of together with the fact that she is married and the husband enters her. These narrations do not show that 9 by itself is the maximum age of bulugh but that the age of 9 together with these extra factors are needed, because if she is married, that means she has reached the physical maturity required to get married.
In fact these narrations seem to suggest that 9 is not the main aim of these two ahadith, but in fact it shows that you need to be strong enough in terms of bodily growth that they naturally have the other signs of bulugh like growth of hair in the pubic region or having a period.
It is true that in the second hadith, it is based on if there is no period, except that this is a very rare situation, as well as the fact that this situation would naturally also include other signs such as the growing of hair in the pubic area.
The point is that the age of 9 is only there, when it also has these other facts, and thus is an indicative factor rather than a factor in itself, and this is clear because nobody says that you reach the age of bulugh when you also marry.
Response 2: the reason is the other factors not being 9
The third hadith makes it clear that the young girl becomes baligh because she gets her period, and if she does not get her period, she does not become baligh.
Response 3: there are other reasons
Assuming that the age of 9 in the final two narrations are meant in an absolute sense, they are still there together with the other factors such as marriage or having their period.
Response 4
Those which do not mention marriage or period (4th and 5th hadith) directly have problems: they both have gaps in the chain of narration.
The fourth also does not mention the age by itself but also the fact that she has to be able to spend her money, and this only happens after the person is mature:
Quran 4: 6: “then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property”
And this maturity is when adult decisions are made rather than childish ones, and this accompanies when a woman gets her period and the other signs of bulugh.
The fifth narration only implies that the limit is 9 but it could mean the minimum limit.
Overall, the 5 narrations, in spite of the fact:
1. Weakness of Abd al Aziz al-Abdi in the chain of the first
2. The fact that Yazid al-Kanaasi is not known in the chain of the second
3. The fourth and fifth have gaps in the chain of narration
In spite of these facts, even if we accept them, the age of 9 is always accompanied with another factor such as being ready for marriage, or getting one’s period, or maturity or growth.
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